Débat sur Assasin caster

Assasin caster:

C'est une idée de classe que j'aimerais develloper avec vous. Il serait bon avec des death spell et des touch spell combiné avec des sneak attack. Il ferait surment ses sort en silent et still. Dites-moi ce que vous en penser.

Je dirais qu'ils pourraient ajouter ses sneaks attacks avec ses touch spells et ses range touch spells.

Ils pourraient meme gagner comme avantage que 1 silent ou 1 still pourraient ne pas monter le niveau du sort... mais que l'ajout d'un autre métamagic (meme si s'est silent ou still) affecte normalement.

J'ai quelques idées. Je vous revient là-dessus.

P.S.: L'Arcane Trickster est un mage/rogue. Le mieux est donc de se baser là-dessus mais d'aller plus vers l'assassin au lieu du rogue et vers le nécromencien/deats spells au lieu de n'importe lequel mage.

Un point à clarifier, l’assassin caster peut-être prêtre, wizard et sorcerer. Je ne veux pas que vous croyez que le classe n’ai que pour les arcanes. Voici les pré-requis



Assassin Caster


Hit Dice: d6.

Requirements:

Feats: Still spell, silent spell
Skill: Spellcraft 7 rank, Bluff 4 rank, Hide 6 rank, Move silently 6 rank
Spells: Knowledge of at least three touched spell that deals lethal damage such as inflict light wound of acid splash. Knowledge of one death spell of level 5 or more
Special: Sneak attack +1d6

Class Skills: The Assassin Caster Class Skill are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at each level: 4 +i Int Modifier

Class Features:

Weapon and armor Profidency: The blademaster gain no proficiency.

Voici une version complète. Peut-être aurait-il des changement et je voudrais votre avis.

Assassin Caster


Hit Dice: d4.

Requirements:

Alignment: Any evil.
Feats: Still spell, silent spell, Spell focus(Necromancy)
Skill: Spellcraft 7 rank, Bluff 4 rank, Hide 6 rank, Move silently 6 rank
Spells: Knowledge of at least Three touched spell that deals lethal damage such as inflict light wound of acid splash. Knowledge of one death spell of level 5 or more
Special: Sneak attack +1d6
Special: The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins.

Class Skills: The Assassin Caster Class Skill are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at each level: 4 +i Int Modifier

Class Features:

Weapon and armor Profidency: The Assassin Caster gain no proficiency.

BA....For..Ref..Will.......Special…………

+0....+0...+2...+2.....Death spell mastery
+1....+0...+3...+3.... Sneak attack +1d6, Improved death spell(1/D)
+1....+1...+3...+3.... Discrete Caster(1/D)
+2....+1...+4...+4.... Sneak attack +2d6,
+2....+1...+4...+4.....Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack(1/D)
+3....+2...+5...+5..... Sneak attack +3d6, Improved death spell(2/D)
+3....+2...+5...+5......Discrete Caster(2/D)
+4....+2...+6...+6......Sneak attack +4d6
+4....+3...+7...+7......Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack(2/D)
+5....+3...+7...+7...... Sneak attack +5d6, Improved death spell(3/D)


Death spell mastery

Whenever the assassin caster is using a death spell, he can use his character level as your caster level.

Improved death spell

Beginning at 2nd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can add a +2 dc check and caster level to any of his death spell. He can also apply his sneak attack damage to his spell. For example, Kronos Til a rogue 1, necromancer 10, Assassin Caster 6 cast a finger of death and his opponent save check his successful he still receive 3d6 +15(from the spell) plus 4d6(from sneak attack) damages.
At 6 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day.
At 10 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day.

Spells per Day/Spells Known

From 2nd level on, when a new Assassin Caster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

Sneak Attack
This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an Assassin Caster gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

Discrete Caster

Beginning at 3rd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can apply the effect of still spell feats and silent spell feats to any spell you can cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time.
At 7 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day

Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack

Beginning at 5rd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can declare one melee or ranged touched spell attack he makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu touched spell sneak attack is a ranged touched attack). The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures that are not subject to critical hits take no extra damage (though they still lose any Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack). Using that is a full round attack.
At 9 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day.

Je sais pas si j'aime les once per day, disont que j'aurais plus voté pour une méchanique plus durable.

Tel que ajouter soit still OU silent spells gratuitement.

Ses sneak attack marche si il fait une touch attack ou ranged touch attack lorsque l'adversaire n'a le droit à sa dextérité.

Peut-etre un bonus feat disant qu'il réussit toujours a caster défensivement (il existe tout de meme un feat fesant le contraire, empecher un mage de caster défensivement (Mage slayer je crois))

En tant que assassin, il pourrait avoir des bonus pour persé la magic résistance avec ses deathspells, du genre +5 contre ceux ayant une résistance magique, augmentant plus plutard, etc.

Syd a écrit:

Je sais pas si j'aime les once per day, disont que j'aurais plus voté pour une méchanique plus durable.

Tel que ajouter soit still OU silent spells gratuitement.

J'y ai pensé, mais je tiens à te montrer deux dons épiques.

Automatic Silent Spell [Epic]
Prerequisites

Silent Spell, Spellcraft 24 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.

Benefit
You may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level spells as silent spells without using higher-level spell slots.

Special
You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, the spells of your next three lowest spell levels can now be silenced with no adjustment to their spell slots. This feat doesn’t increase the casting time for those spells that normally become full-round actions when cast in metamagic form. However, since bard spells can’t be enhanced with the Silent Spell feat, they can’t be affected by this feat either.

Automatic Still Spell [Epic]
Prerequisites

Still Spell, Spellcraft 27 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.

Benefit

You may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level spells as stilled spells without using higher-level spell slots.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, the spells of your next three lowest spell levels can now be stilled with no adjustment to their spell slots. This feat doesn’t increase the casting time for those spells that normally become full-round actions when cast in metamagic form.

Ta suggestion serait comme avoir deux dons épiques. En plus, ces dons ne touchent que les sort de niv 1 à 3. En mettant ce pouvoir en "Once a day" c'est équivalent au don Sudden still et Sudden silent ce qui est plus équilibré.

Syd a écrit:

Ses sneak attack marche si il fait une touch attack ou ranged touch attack lorsque l'adversaire n'a le droit à sa dextérité.

Déjà, selon les règles, avec ranged touched et melee touched on applique le sneak attack dans le cas de flat flooted et flanking comme les attacks normaux. Je ne crois pas qu'il faut modifier son sneak attack ou spécifié qu'elle touche ces ranged ou melee touched puisque c'est déjà écrit dans les règles.(Lis la page 86 du Complete arcane)

Syd a écrit:

Peut-etre un bonus feat disant qu'il réussit toujours a caster défensivement (il existe tout de meme un feat fesant le contraire, empecher un mage de caster défensivement (Mage slayer je crois))

Sérieusement, je ne comprends pas pourquoi ce don serait utile pour un assassin. L'assassin attaque quand l'adversaire est surpris et quelqu'un de surpris n'a pas d'attaque d'attaque d'opportunité. Il faudrait que tu m'explique. De plus, il existe déjà un tel don et il est épique en plus. Tu veux vraiement rendre ma classe booster.

Improved Combat Casting [Epic]
Prerequisites

Combat Casting, Concentration 25 ranks.

Benefit
You don’t incur attacks of opportunity for casting spells when threatened.

Syd a écrit:

En tant que assassin, il pourrait avoir des bonus pour persé la magic résistance avec ses deathspells, du genre +5 contre ceux ayant une résistance magique, augmentant plus plutard, etc.

Justement J'ai deux abilities de la classe qui fait ça:Death spell mastery et Improved death spell. Ces deux abilities augmentent le caster level et donc perse mieux les spell resistance.

Personnellement, je trouve que ya des dons épiques qui ne méritent pas le titre d'épique :S

Et souvent, je trouve que c'est un casse tête inutile pour en acquérire.

Et puis, si ya des dons épique, à quoi cela change si il devient un élément de classe?

Et finalement, les still et le silent n'affectait pas juste les lvl 1 a 3 mais tout les spells, mais un seul peut etre actif sans pénalité.

Mais bref, on pourrait tout autant dire qu'il peut rendre ses spells still et silent sans les préparer, et ainsi, juste enlever un sort de plus haut lvl (comme les sorcier)

Syd a écrit:

Personnellement, je trouve que ya des dons épiques qui ne méritent pas le titre d'épique :S

Et souvent, je trouve que c'est un casse tête inutile pour en acquérire.

Peut-être as-tu raison? Il y a peut-être des dons épiques qui ne méritent pas le titre de épique. Cependant dans le cas des dons épiques Automatic Still Spell et du Automatic Silent Spell, tu tires, je crois, vite des conclusions. N’oublie pas qu’avec still spell tu peux caster en armure et en grapple aussi. Tu peux caster le sort enchaîner. Avec silent, tu peux caster dans une zone de Silence. Avec les deux dons combiner, tu peux caster un sort dans une foule sans que personne sans rendre compte. Par exemple, assassiner le roi pendant une fêtes avec un silent still finger of death.

Syd a écrit:

Et puis, si ya des dons épique, à quoi cela change si il devient un élément de classe?

Lorsque tu crées un classe ou tout autre chose, il est bien de comparer pour savoir si notre classe est trop forte ou trop forte. Donner un pouvoir comparable à un don épic te donne au moins des indications que ta classe pourrait être forte.

Syd a écrit:

Et finalement, les still et le silent n'affectait pas juste les lvl 1 a 3 mais tout les spells, mais un seul peut etre actif sans pénalité.

Mais bref, on pourrait tout autant dire qu'il peut rendre ses spells still et silent sans les préparer, et ainsi, juste enlever un sort de plus haut lvl (comme les sorcier)

Il faudrait j’y pense mais je trouve que le « once a day » est quand une meilleur chose, car l’assassin n’a pas besoin de faire ce pouvoir à volonté de toute façon. Dès que le combat est commencé, ces deux dons sont inutile. Si il pourrait le faire à volonté, il pourrait en abuser en utilisant le pouvoir en full plate, en grapple et en zone de silence.

Bonne explication, je suis alors daccort avec toi sur tes points de vue

Voici ce que je pense être la version final de la classe avec un PNJ.

Assassin Caster

Hit Dice: d4.

Requirements:

Alignment: Any evil.
Feats: Still spell, silent spell, Spell focus(Necromancy or illusion)
Skill: Spellcraft 7 rank, Bluff 4 rank, Hide 6 rank, Move silently 6 rank
Spells: Knowledge of at least Three touched spell(ranged or melee) that deals lethal damage such as inflict light wound or acid splash and one of them must be at least level 4. Must be able to cast of at least of these follow spells: Phantasmal Killer, slay living, circle of death, destruction, finger of death, Weird, wail of the banshee or any death spell accept from the DM
Special: Sneak attack +1d6
Special: The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins.

Class Skills: The Assassin Caster Class Skill are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at each level: 4 +Int Modifier

Class Features:

Weapon and armor Proficiency: The Assassin Caster gain no proficiency.

BA....For..Ref..Will.......Special…………

+0....+0...+2...+2.....Death spell mastery, poison use
+1....+0...+3...+3.... Sneak attack +1d6, Improved death spell(1/D)
+1....+1...+3...+3.... Discrete Caster(1/D)
+2....+1...+4...+4.... Sneak attack +2d6,
+2....+1...+4...+4.....Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack(1/D)
+3....+2...+5...+5..... Sneak attack +3d6, Improved death spell(2/D)
+3....+2...+5...+5......Discrete Caster(2/D)
+4....+2...+6...+6......Sneak attack +4d6
+4....+3...+7...+7......Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack(2/D)
+5....+3...+7...+7...... Sneak attack +5d6, Improved death spell(3/D)


Death spell mastery

Whenever the assassin caster is using a death spell, he can use his character level as your caster level.

Poison Use
Assassins caster are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.


Improved death spell
Beginning at 2nd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can add a +2 dc check and caster level to any of his death spell. He can also apply his sneak attack damage to his spell. For example, Kronos Til a rogue 1, necromancer 10, Assassin Caster 6 cast a finger of death and his opponent save check his successful he still receive 3d6 +15(from the spell) plus 4d6(from sneak attack) damages. Even if the spell doesn’t damage in case of a successful save, he still receives damage from sneak attack.
At 6 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day.
At 10 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability three times per day.

Spells per Day/Spells Known
From 2nd level on, when a new Assassin Caster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of Assassin caster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

Sneak Attack
This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an Assassin Caster gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

Discrete Caster
Beginning at 3rd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can apply the effect of still spell feats and silent spell feats to any spell you can cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time.
At 7 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day

Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack
Beginning at 5rd level, once per day an Assassin Caster can declare one melee or ranged touched spell attack he makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu touched spell sneak attack is a ranged touched attack). The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures that are not subject to critical hits take no extra damage (though they still lose any Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack). Using that is a full round attack.
At 9 th level, an Assassin Caster can use this ability twice per day.

Sample of Assassin caster:

Niria “the priestess of death” Shanya CR 15
female human rogue1/cleric 9/Assassin caster 5
CE Medium humanoid
Init -1;Senses Listen +7, Spot +7
Languages Common, Abysal
--------------------------------------------------------------------
AC 23, touch 14, flat-footed 20
(+3 Dex, +6 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 56 (15 HD)
Fort +7, Ref +12, Will +19;
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +1 rapier +12/+7 (1d6)
Ranged mwk light crossbow +11 (1d8)
Base Atk +8; Grp +7
Special Actions spontaneous casting, rebuke undead 4/day (+1, 2d6+10,9rd), sneak attack + 3d6, Discrete Caster, Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack, Improved death spell, death touch(From death domain)
Combat Gear +1 mithral glamered breast plate, +1 buckler,
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 13th; melee touch +12, ranged touch +11, DC 16 + spell level):
7th- DestructionD(C 23)x2, (Silent still) slay living
6th- Harm(DC 22), Heal(DC 22), MisleadD, Word of recall
5th-Slay livingD, Greater command, Break enchantment, Spell resistance, Mass cure light wounds,
4th-Confusion(DC 20)D, Divine power, Air walk, Dimensional Anchor, Cure critical wound, Poison
3rd-contagion (DC 19), dispel magic, nondetectionD, magic vestment, meld into stone, Deeper darkness
2nd- bear's endurance, cure moderate woundsx2, death knell (DC 17), invisibilityD, cat’s grace, Darkness, Undetectable alignment,
1st-cure light woundsx2, disguise selfD, divine favor, shield of faith, Obscuring mist, Bane, Doom(DC 17)
0-cure minor wounds, detect poison, guidance, Detect magic, Read magic, Resistance
D: Domain spell. Deity: Nerull. Domains: Death, Trickery.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 8, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 13
SA spontaneous casting, rebuke undead 4/day (+3, 2d6+10, 9rd), sneak attack + 3d6, poison use, Discrete Caster, Impromptu touched spell Sneak Attack, Improved death spell, death touch(From death domain)
SQ moderate aura of evil, Death spell mastery, tapfinding
Feats Spell Focus (necromancy), Still spell, weapon finesse, Silent spell, Greater spell focus(necromancy), Spell penetration, Weapon focus(touch spell)
Skills Bluff +5, Climb + 3, Concentration +9, Diplomacy + 5, Gather Information +5, Hide +14, Knowledge (arcana) + 8, Knowledge (religion) + 8, Knowledge (the planes) +4, Listen + 7, Move silently + 14, Open lock, + 5, Sense Motive + 4, Spellcraft + 9, Spot + 7, Search + 7, Disable device+ 5
Possessions Cloak of elven kind, Boots of elvenkind, Mithral Glamered breast plate + 1, Ring of protection + 1, Amulet of natural armor +1, Periapt of wisdom +4, glove of dexterity + 2, Buckler + 1, mwk lightcrossbow, 20 bolt + 1, 1 back lotus extract(Contact DC 20, initial damage: 3d6 con, secondary dammage 3d6 con) , 4 large scorpion venom(Injurie DC 18, initial damage: 1d6 str, secondary damage 1d6 str), 2 Dark reaver powder(Ingested DC 18, initial damage: 2d6 con, secondary dammage 1d6 con+1d6 str), silver unholy symbol, rapier +1, Ring mind shielding, 361 PP, 5 PO

Je dois huer le d4, je crois qu'aucune classe, y compris les mages, ne mérite le d4 dans les hit points.

Peut-être ça pourrait être un débat à commencer(Il pourrait être cool de mettre un lieu "Débat" sur le forum). Personnellement, je crois qu'un wizard ou l'assassin caster doit avoir moins de HP qu'un rogue.

J'aimerais bien t'attendre élaborer sur ce sujet, mais je crois qu'il faudrait créer un un lieu de débat, car ce sujet ne conserne pas juste les Assassin Caster, mais les arcane caster aussi.